| POTTERTON SUPRIMA 30 - 80
WARNING FROM POTTERTON As our boiler appeared to be playing up - basically
switching itself off, so the radiators went cold. BBC Watchdog did a item on the problem boilers on 6th February 2007 Due to the approach of the long Christmas break, I purchased a set of
replacement parts recommended by a heating engineer PCB 5102160 £161.44 THIS COSTS A QUARTER OF THE PRICE OF A COMPLETE NEW BOILER SO THINK TWICE BEFORE BUYING (a cheaper exchange refurbished board may be available) SENSOR 404516 £8.10 (the sensor needs some fresh conducting paste). There is also a solenoid valve actuator in the airing cupboard, switching
demand from Hot water to heating. You would probably only need to change
the top part (not the valve) £43.18 Potterton/Myson part number 421001
for an MPE322 or MSU322 valve Instructions I could see little point in buying parts without trying them, so I changed
them all. If you have a normal level of competence, for instance if you would
feel able to assemble parts of a computer these parts can be changed easily.
But remember to turn off the power before taking off the covers, and make
sure the boiler has cooled down !!! and the Potterton warning above There are numerous wired plugs on the PCB but it would be difficult to get it wrong as they are all different shapes, just ensure they are all re-connected. The whole control panel assembly can be lifted off to aid access, (lift when in closed position), normally the control panel hinges at the bottom, one screw secures it.
So I have a set of parts, most of which will be ok, if you want to investigate a fault.
PARTS ARE AVAILABLE FROM HILTON HEATING CONTROLS (just down the road) UNIT 24 DRY DRAYTON INDUSTRIES SCOTLAND ROAD TELEPHONE 01954 211867, they are normally open all weekdays and until midday on Saturdays
Board repairs http://www.cetltd.com/ Suprimas account for almost 50% of the pcbs we repair (we turn over ~ £300,000) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- February 2007 Dear Sir I can safely say that at least in my own case Potterton Suprimas have a PCB problem. After enduring 8 months of intermittent heating, flashing red light syndrome and cold showers my Suprima now works as it should. When the boiler first started locking out I took advice from a local heating engineer and was told that the overheat switches cause problems on the Suprimas. And when I looked inside the boiler I could see that they were quite a simple thing to change, so I paid £32 for the two sensors and due to the boiler not failing again for nearly a month they sat in a drawer. The next time the boiler locked out I swapped the sensors and it worked fine for a week or two before failing again, only this time it would not run for more than 5 - 10 minutes without a reset. I have a 5 year old daughter and as the weather was cold having no heating was not an option. I had two heating companies look at the fault, the first one said that "all my radiator pipes were connected wrongly" and this was the problem and for £650 they would re-pipe the system (time has proved this diagnosis to be incorrect). as the system had worked fine previously I thought a second opinion would be a good idea. This engineer suggested a new condensing boiled be fitted (at this point the Suprima was 13 months old!), but did mention that he had heard through the trade that this model had PCB problems. I am an electronics engineer working on vintage guitar amplifiers, which are notorious for "dry joints", so really at this point I should have looked at that board, but I am not a CORGI registered engineer and with a 5 year old in the house I felt that safety was the main priority. So I rang Potterton who said that there were no known problems with the Suprima and for £299 would repair the boiler regardless of what needed replacing, so I said yes, send the engineer.... give me heat! Unfortunately the boiler then decided to play ball again and for the 4 days before the appointment it worked faultlessly, so not wanting to have the guy turn up and not be able to find the fault I postponed the visit. Then I saw the WATCHDOG program, just luck as I don't normally watch it! ................. I AM NOT ALONE!! I Googled "Potterton Suprima PCB" and found your site, then I took the board out and found 35 ........ YES 35 dry joints! Touch wood, the boiler has not failed since the repair and we now can have hot showers and a warm house to come home to. Baxi / Potterton should be ashamed of themselves, there is a common fault with these boilers and they do know it, after all they replaced the boards in all unsold stock. They now have a dedicated team dealing with the problem, I would say to anyone who has this fault, get an engineer to check your board and if dry joints are found, demand a new, free board from potterton. Although they have now dropped the price to £180, which includes a boiler check over, we should not be expected to pay for their mistakes and bad design / quality control. After seeing the problems with my board it looks like a combination of thermal stress and poor quality solderbath process. Good luck to your quest and to anyone who has the Suprima problem. Regards Steve Ayers. Norwich. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- October 23 2006 Thank you for you very informative site, it has helped me rectify the lockout problems I have been plagued with on my Suprima 50. As a qualified and practicing electronics engineer, I had no qualms removing the controller board and inspecting for cracked or dry solder joints. I found a couple of suspect joints around the mircocontroller chip and three more on one of the relays, all of which I remade. I re-installed the controller card, and the boiler functioned for a couple of hours, but then stopped, and would only fire up for a minute or so, even though there was constant demand, so no heating or hot water again! However, the boiler was not going into lockout. I removed the controller card once again, and this time on I found cracked solder joints on the two larger connectors J6 and J8 which supply the Fan, Gas valve and Pump. I suspect that the cracking on these joints probably occurred or was made worse by the force required to remove and remake the mating connectors. Having remade the solder joints to all the onboard connectors, the boiler is now working as it should. If anyone else is planning to attempt a diy repair on the controller card, then I would recommend the re-making of all the solder joints to all the onboard connectors as a matter of course. Andy October 2006 My Suprima 60 had been playing up for a while, either locking out or else not getting hot enough (kept shutting down). Having turned on the heating again on Saturday, it refused to do anything. On removing the PCB, I noticed hairline cracks on several of the solders, basically dry joints. Interestingly they were worst on the boiler cut out (problem 1) and the CH heat sensor (problem 2). Having passed O level electronics 20 years ago, I re-soldered the joints at a cost of £2 for some more solder and it work straight away! I recomend anyone who has used a solder iron before trys this before calling a plumber. Regards Keith Emery September 2006 Back in March 2006 I described a temporary fix to my Potterton Suprema (old style with non-encased electronics board, fitted 2001). The problem recurred, but I now have a much more specific diagnosis and have (I believe) fixed it more permanently. The problem had been dropping into the the locked-up state (flashing red) after either the slow green light flashing stage (fan on) or the fast green light flashing stage (gas valve on). The fan or valve would not come on when the fault occurred. Near the middle of the board are three black rectangular relays, two together and one above and staggered a bit backwards. The middle one controls the fan, the top (staggered back) one the valve. Applying a gentle sideways pressure to these at the appropriate time would make them come on. So now, knowing where to look, I had the board out. Sure enough, the soldered joints to these components had a fine hairline crack around the wire from the component - very difficult to see unless you knew where to look. I suspect thermal stresses tend to undo these joints. After quick re-soldering job it has not failed since (fingers crossed still). Tim 3rd June 2006 Hello, I would just like to thank you for the excellent information posted on this website. I've been having issues with my Potterton Suprima 30 boiler for nearly 6 months now and it was a delight to read the issues page with people experiencing exactly the same symptoms. It started with the usual resets and ended up with heavy hitting in tactical places (well that seemed to work). Anyhow, this weekend it failed completely and from reading the details on your website, I looked at the circuit board and found a good 10 solder's which were dry and cracked. I soldered these up and reconnected and touch wood, it is running fine ! Hopefully it will stand the test of time, but giving it didn't work at all and already I have seen no issue at all, it can only be good. I'd recommend this to everyone before buying a £200 new PCB. Thanks again, saved me some money ! Regards.... Andy Smith 3rd April 2006 I have read your web site and too have had problems with our Potterton boiler. Our house is nearly 4 yrs old, built by Bovis. I conducted a survey around our estate (approx 179 Bovis homes and a few Barratt homes who have the same boilers). Approximately one quarter of the Estate have had problems, either whilst still under warranty or like mine, out of warranty. I had to pay £250 to Heatteam (Potterson service engineers) and they left me 6 days without hot water and heating with a small child in December. We are in the process of writing to Bovis and Potterton. We have asked Heatteam how many times they have been to our Estate but they refuse to give us the information. One household has had to have 5 PCB boards. Mine was the PCB Board and the gas valve. Another gripe if that they state you get 12 months guarantee. However your 12 months start from when you make the phone call to request an enginer. Today (3rd April 2006) I have e-mailed Heatteam asking why the guarantee MUST start on the request date. Surely a guarantee is what it states "GUARANTEE", yet Heatteam want you to pay for something that you haven't even got let alone fitted. Heatteam/Potterton state that I am an individual and that they are not aware of any such problems. I have explained that their engineers and their technical support team confirmed to neighbours, I included that there was a problem with the PCB Board but that it has not been rectificed. What a load of rubbish these boilers are!!!! Tania - Mansfield 24th March 2006 I have a new home (now 4 years old) my boiler keeps locking out result cold house! This lockout results in a manual reset of the boiler, then it may work ok for a month or a day or 2 hours! I would strongly suggest that people do not just jump to a PCB board (of course you may end up needing one) but first refer to the wiring diagrams that are left in the instruction/install pack. I am a qualified auto electrician now working in diagnostics so you could say this is a field I am interested in! This boiler is a highly efficient condensing unit as such requires the pump to be wired back to the boiler this dissipates the heat build up at boiler turn off i.e. the PCB must contain a timer chip that’s continues to run the pump for a period of time after the demand is switch off from the tank or room stat. but can only works if the install instructions have been followed & the pump is wired back to the boiler. In conventional boilers it is not necessary to do this. In my case the pump is not wired back to the boiler hence the heat build up & the over temp switch cutting in which results in a manual reset. I have checked a couple more houses on my estate guess what yes your right pumps are not wired back to the boiler. Please check this point it’s easy you don’t need to touch a screw driver! Just locate your pump (normally in the airing cupboard) make sure your heating is on & rad’s are hot & the pump is running, turn your tank stat down (ie no hot water demand) turn your room stat down if the pump stops as soon as you turn off your room stat no pump over run-if it continues to run it must be wired back to the boiler. At the end of the test don’t forget to reset your hot water tank stat! For confirmation you could (when boiler cold) isolated the power supply to the boiler, remove the right hand side cover normally just one screw (but with later PCB’s you may find a second screw in the top) just look in DON’T TOUCH it’s clearly labelled at the connector block “PUMP” if you have wires connected you should be ok if not you need some! My suggestion would be to get a quote from a “Sparky” & a plumber.. If your house is like mine newish & the wiring needs attentions refer back to the builders they did the job incorrectly in the first place & liable. In my case the builders are due to inspect & carryout any necessary work. Will it cure that fault 100%? I don’t know but one thing’s for sure it needs doing! Best regards, Colin Vaughan colin.wv@virgin.net --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 28th May 2005 Dear Sir I have seen the following page where you have written about changing the Potterton Myson MPE322 actuator (ACT322) in the airing cupboard. http://www.cambourne.info/boilerparts.html We do sell this item on our website www.rkm-heating-controls.co.uk for £38.86 inc VAT & delivery. We are also based in Willingham, so are easy to pickup from. You may like to mention this on your excellent website. Regards Matthew Moule RKM Heating Controls www.rkm-heating-controls.co.uk ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13th March 2006 Variations on theme: My Potterton Suprima 70 was locking out up to several times a day. On reading this site, I whipped the board out and went over it with a magnifying glass and multimeter - as an electronic engineer, I knew what I was looking for. Gently scraped a few grotty bits, found nothing, gave the back a good brushing with an old toothbrush, and put it back. Going fine ever since! So what could I have done? (a) unknowingly removed a low impedance bridge between tracks, or closed up a dry joint, (b) by unplugging, cleaned up a poor contact or crimp, (c) inadvertently moved the EHT wire that goes to the spark gap further away from other wires - interesting possibility - the one time I have caught it in flagrante locking up was immediately after ignition - could interference into a signal line be the cause, (d) made it feel loved and wanted, and improved its will to live! Tim. Dear Sir, Dear Sir, I read with interest a letter from another Bryant home owner who has had exactly the same problem as myself with the inferior PCB design from Potterton. A PCB is a very sensitive item and when exposed to rapid increases and decreases in temperature this will cause expansion and contraction of the soldered joints, leading to dry joints. Surely, Potterton, a company that has dealt with central heating boilers for years should know this!! Maybe they do and they like taking their customers to the cleaners. I have repaired 5 of my neighbours Potterton Suprima 50 PCB’s and that is not including my own. At £200 per PCB, I could make a living just repairing Bryant homes. Steve 15th November 2005 I had problems with my Suprima 60 for over a year, having to re-set it increasingly frequently. Having read your notes I removed the printed circuit board (easy to do) and examined the soldering minutely. At first I couldn’t see anything wrong but, with a magnifying glass and a bit of patience, I eventually found 15(!) minute cracks in the soldered terminals for the plug-in connectors. Half an hour later it was re-soldered and assembled again (easy to do). It has not failed since. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Martin Brown December 15th 2005 Mr Hume, I do not know if appropriate for your site but wanted to vent my outrage against the least reliable product I have personally ever experienced, namely the Potterton Suprima 80. Looking at the problems detailed across the web against this product I wonder how a reputation can be maintained or the cost to recover it. This item was installed new late in 2001 and I have easily spent significantly more in repairs across a range of plumbers than I paid for the item initially. Subsequent to my latest PCB installation (the new 5111603 series) just 3 months ago the boiler once again demonstrates those typical symptoms of failing to relight until reset. I have phoned Potterton who cannot help except by offering to send one of their Engineers out at a price of £249 to resolve the problem. The spend in keeping this boiler operational cannot be warranted, two of my local plumbers have suggested it would be more cost effective to rip out this 4 year old boiler and replace with an item from a different vendor. The decision was easy. I look forward to a new year with a different boiler, peace of mind and a warm house. Regards, M Brenan I too had a problem with the Potterton Suprima boiler switching itself on and off at most unexpected times. Having read other accounts of there being problems with the PCB on different web sites I thought I would check this out for myself. I removed the control cover and just tapped the individual components and low and behold it would burst into life and then die. I found that if I could shake the board with a good tap it would perhaps stay on long enough to get the water warm. A phone call to Solent Gas in Portsmouth ascertained that they were always replacing the PCB’s and there is an exchange program to refurbish them. Unfortunately the warranty on my boiler had expired so it did require me to buy an exchange unit which has fixed the problems. I had been experiencing intermittent and recently permanent lack of ignition to the boiler unless it was given a good slap which I could hear jolted the relay on the board. Although the board cost me £153.00 it has been worth it as now not only does the water heat up but the pumps work when they should as well. I wish I had thought of getting an electrician to check it out first but when it finally failed I was desperate to get it fixed as soon as I could. Chris IT2000 Desktop Services Capital House 01962 831002 48-52 Andover Road HPSN 301 1002 Winchester Mobile 07718146106 SO23 7BH Mobex 252 6106 chris.sherin@hants.gov.uk www.hants.gov.uk Don’t know if its any help to you but after seeing a re-run of a BBC Watchdog program (there the boiler keeps having to be re-set having switched itself off) I click on a link on the BBC website and used the supplied document to mail the potterton chief executive - 20 days later I receive a reply and after calling the supplied 0800 number I arranged a engineer to come round. 4 days later he came and replaced the PCB within 20 mins all free of charge (June 2007)- now everything's perfect Regards, Martin Evans
If your boiler is operating normally and is heating the water but not the radiators, the pump may need replacing, a bit awkward as our pump is located at the rear of the airing cupboard, there are water isolating valves either side of the pump to enable removal. There is also a hot water thermostat fixed to the tank.
Homes built in about 2001 or after approximately, a pressurised heating tank was fitted in all homes, you can identify which tank you have by the lack of space in airing cupboards if you have the newer type, and also much higher water flows for filling the bath or the hot water kitchen sink tap. Also I don't think you have water tanks in the loft. Potterton were taken over in 1996 or thereabouts and are now called
baxi potterton. You can obtain a manual for your potterton boiler by calling
their after sales technical support on 0870 609 9049.... they will give
you a phone number and if you quote your boiler make, the paperwork appears
in the post within 3-5 days. Or ask to borrow mine, you should have a
copy in your home pack A new boiler complete typical price £499.00 £586.33 Including VAT at 17.5% IF YOUR HEATING ENGINEER TELLS YOU YOU NEED A NEW BOARD REFER HIM TO THESE REPLIES FROM POTTERTON ALTHOUGH JUDGING BY THE NUMBER OF FAILURES ON THE INTERNET, DO YOU BELIEVE THEM ? Dear Mr Hume, I was concerned to learn of the difficulties you are experiencing with your boiler and am sorry for any inconvenience caused to you as a result. After speaking with our Technical Department I can confirm that there are no known faults with the PCB or indeed with any of the components on the Suprima 50 boiler. If you would like to speak to them about any concerns you have with your boiler you can contact them on 08706 049049. Regards, Jess Nunn Baxi Heateam. service@baxipotterton.co.uk Mr Hume,
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